I think it might live ....

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D-Rider · #1 Post by **D-Rider** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:35 pm

Falco has been dead for best part of a week

Thought it was probably the battery ... which gave up with no warning.

Proved it today as, having had it on charge for a few days, it still failed to start. Jump starting from the car did the trick.

New battery now on order.
I've gone for the Yuasa YTZ14S which is their AGM version of the YTX14S.

Found it on ebay at about half the usual price (a third of what some places are selling it for). It claims to be a genuine one so, hopefully, I'll not be disappointed.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWNX:IT

Mind you, this week's ebay purchases have been a bit of a disaster. Bought a front brake cable and a speedo cable for my son's CB125. Was going to fit them today. Both have the wrong fittings for the bike.

It was then that I noticed one of his rear shocks was in 2 pieces (aren't kids observant?!).
Luckily it wasn't broken - the damper rod had come unscrewed from the top mounting. The big washer that sits on top of the spring was missing and I can't find another the right size but I've got it screwed back together and it looks OK.
(I was very impressed with myself at my patented method for compressing the spring to be able to screw it all together again)

ReggieGasket · #2 Post by **ReggieGasket** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:55 pm

So, 57 is a good price? Just checking.

Aladinsaneuk · #3 Post by **Aladinsaneuk** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:03 pm

You sat on it to compress it didn't you andy?

D-Rider · #4 Post by **D-Rider** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:01 pm

ReggieGasket wrote:So, 57 is a good price? Just checking.

Best I could find for one of these.

A lot better than this one, for example:
http://www.bikingdirect.com/yuasa/batte ... 430-p.html

D-Rider · #5 Post by **D-Rider** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:07 pm

Aladinsaneuk wrote:You sat on it to compress it didn't you andy?

Nooooo ..... I'd have wanted danger money for that ..... one slip and the medical services would have had to retrieve it for me .......

There was a nut near the top of the damper rod - it serves as a lock nut when the top is on .... or didn't in the case of this one.
I pushed an open ended spanner between the coils of the spring with the open end beneath the nut (obviously a smaller spanner size than the nut). Then, making use of the fact that the spring is a spiral, I wound it round and round and, hey presto, the spring compressed a couple of inches and I could screw the top on.
Simple job then of tightening the lock nut with the correct spanner.

FalcoJock · #6 Post by **FalcoJock** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Jump starting from the car did the trick:

I was told by the guy that does the major service bits on my Falco that you should never jump start modern bikes from other vehicles, because (and as I type this I'm begining to have doubts) there is a serious danger of blowing the ECU.

Hmmm. I suppose I took that on face value since he has more experience of bike electrics than me, but I'm trying to think through the circuit that putting another battery in parallel creates and can't think why is should be a danger...

Any thoughts / opinions?

D-Rider · #7 Post by **D-Rider** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:34 am

FalcoJock wrote:Re: Jump starting from the car did the trick:

I was told by the guy that does the major service bits on my Falco that you should never jump start modern bikes from other vehicles, because (and as I type this I'm begining to have doubts) there is a serious danger of blowing the ECU.

Nah - that's complete bollox!

Even the Falco workshop manual tells you how to jump start it!

Obviously you should not jump start from vehicles with 24V electrics though.

fastasfcuk · #8 Post by **fastasfcuk** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:46 pm

just to start a debate. i've had two ecu's spiked through putting jump leads on. one a golf and the other a bravo. i've now got the proper tool to prevent this happening. getting the ecu's repaired cost me a lot of money.

MartDude · #9 Post by **MartDude** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:49 pm

fastasfcuk wrote:just to start a debate. i've had two ecu's spiked through putting jump leads on. one a golf and the other a bravo. i've now got the proper tool to prevent this happening. getting the ecu's repaired cost me a lot of money.

How's that happen? Done it with the Fut and the Rover 75, with no resultant problems.

D-Rider · #10 Post by **D-Rider** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:16 pm

mmm sounds a bit strange to me ..

Not doubting your experience at all but vehicle ecus have to be designed to cope with all manner of spikes and transients. Either those ECUs haven't met the specs or the specs themselves have not covered the situation properly.
I know a lot of effort goes in to this - at least with our products and the vehicle manufacturers that I've had most contact with.

fastasfcuk · #11 Post by **fastasfcuk** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:01 pm

MartDude wrote:
fastasfcuk wrote:just to start a debate. i've had two ecu's spiked through putting jump leads on. one a golf and the other a bravo. i've now got the proper tool to prevent this happening. getting the ecu's repaired cost me a lot of money.
How's that happen? Done it with the Fut and the Rover 75, with no resultant problems.

i've jump started hundreds of cars over 17 yrs and only had this happen twice.so it is rare.it can happen when you first couple the lead on and if you get a big enough flash. the tool stops this happening.

Fausto · #12 Post by **Fausto** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:15 pm

I'm on the verge of committing to a new battery so would love to know how this one goes for you D.R. What does "which is their AGM version of the YTX14S" mean ?

D-Rider · #13 Post by **D-Rider** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:34 pm

Fausto wrote:I'm on the verge of committing to a new battery so would love to know how this one goes for you D.R. What does "which is their AGM version of the YTX14S" mean ?

Quite clearly this translates to "I'm trying my very hardest to baffle you with bullshit"

Actually I do know what AGM is - it stands for Advanced Glass Mat - which is the way the better batteries now separate the lead plates and contain the electrolyte.
Certainly with the Falco battery being mounted at an angle you don't want a liquid electrolyte either.

Of the limited research I did, this was what seemed to be to me to have the best balance of capacity and cca (cca is a measure of the cold start current it can deliver) for the price (though prices for the same batteries seem to vary wildly)
I was lucky enough to find one not too expensive (though it still seems a lot of money to me).

I came close to buying a Varta and also looked at the Odyssey batteries as I'd heard good things about them.
I searched their website which recommended the PC310 battery for the Falco ... but I noticed the spec sheet suggested it was only a 7 or 8 Ah battery .... so I contacted them for advice. They responded:

Hi,
Usually the odysseys have less amp hours but higher cold cranking amps. The pc310 is the only one small enough to fit your bike from what I can find on the net hence why Odyssey list it on their application guide. Personally I don't think it would have quite enough power by the sounds of what is usually fitted. It is quite a bit smaller than what is fitted and the next size odyssey is just a little too big for your bike.

There again I'm no expert and I was only able to have a quick look to decide what's "best" (whatever that means).

After I'd ordered mine, someone on AF1 suggests the Yuasa YTX14H-BS might be better but there seems to be not a lot in it - probably comes down to the price you can get them for .....

Fausto · #14 Post by **Fausto** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:02 pm

Why thank you sir. I have been doing some research of my own but tbh found it all too dull to continue and was going to plump for a YTZ 14S as that's what's in there and it did ok up to now.

Perhaps I'll get my finger out now and order something so I am not fretting about the starting her up on a weak battery perils.

back_marker · #15 Post by **back_marker** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:23 pm

D-Rider wrote:
Fausto wrote:I'm on the verge of committing to a new battery so would love to know how this one goes for you D.R. What does "which is their AGM version of the YTX14S" mean ?
Quite clearly this translates to "I'm trying my very hardest to baffle you with bullshit"

Actually I do know what AGM is - it stands for Advanced Glass Mat - which is the way the better batteries now separate the lead plates and contain the electrolyte.
Certainly with the Falco battery being mounted at an angle you don't want a liquid electrolyte either.

Of the limited research I did, this was what seemed to be to me to have the best balance of capacity and cca (cca is a measure of the cold start current it can deliver) for the price (though prices for the same batteries seem to vary wildly)
I was lucky enough to find one not too expensive (though it still seems a lot of money to me).

I came close to buying a Varta and also looked at the Odyssey batteries as I'd heard good things about them.
I searched their website which recommended the PC310 battery for the Falco ... but I noticed the spec sheet suggested it was only a 7 or 8 Ah battery .... so I contacted them for advice. They responded:

Hi,
Usually the odysseys have less amp hours but higher cold cranking amps. The pc310 is the only one small enough to fit your bike from what I can find on the net hence why Odyssey list it on their application guide. Personally I don't think it would have quite enough power by the sounds of what is usually fitted. It is quite a bit smaller than what is fitted and the next size odyssey is just a little too big for your bike.
There again I'm no expert and I was only able to have a quick look to decide what's "best" (whatever that means).

After I'd ordered mine, someone on AF1 suggests the Yuasa YTX14H-BS might be better but there seems to be not a lot in it - probably comes down to the price you can get them for .....

I'm afraid I may be about to burst your bubble on this one.

IIRC YTX and YTZ are different sizes of battery and not different types - if you check their dimensions the YTZ is some 37mm shorter and slightly different all round.

Most large motorcycle batteries these days are of the AGM type, that is they have fibreglass between the plates that absorbs the acid and stops it from evaporating this is what allows us to have maint free batteries (it also allows them to be mounted on their side as there is no liquid to leak out). The superior type for their CCA are Gel filled batteries which are much more expensive.

For what it's worth I replaced mine with a genuine AGM Yuasa, the same as OE for just over £40 by shoppping around on Ebay.